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我发了一半及审核了，刚出来--------续篇：
We used to send our high tech frigates after Spanish fishermen, and the
Spanish would just ram them.
So our frigates would have to run away.
A cheap old battle bus is what the job wants.
我们曾经派遣高级的驱逐舰来驱赶西班牙佬的渔民，而他们一看到就直接撞上来。
结果我们的驱逐舰就只好退避三舍。
一辆便宜的武装巴士才是合适的任务装备。
Thu 12 Apr 2012, 04:55
The 7th Fleet is just shaking in terror.
第七舰队在发抖呢。
Thu 12 Apr 2012, 05:10
If they sell these things to the North Koreans, the USN will be retreating
to Australia.
Wait a minute, it already is.
如果他们把这种东西卖给朝鲜，那美军就要撤退到澳大利亚去啦。等下，他们好像已经在澳大利亚了。
Thu 12 Apr 2012, 05:14
This has been went over already... in detail.
The South China Sea: a Global Power Play.
从细节上重温一遍。南中国海，是一场世界大国的游戏的舞台。
Thu 12 Apr 2012, 05:14
You gotta love how the story makes no mention of China reverse engineering
American technology to reach the level of military sophistication it hastoday.
你很喜欢避而不谈中国是山寨美国科技才达到今天的军事装备水准这一事实吧？
Talk about onesided.
只是在片面地讨论。
Thu 12 Apr 2012, 05:23
The engineering was orignally Russian.
Russian styled subs, and Russian style Scud's with Russian styled Sunburn
guidance systems.
其实中国山寨的是俄罗斯。
俄罗斯风格的潜艇，俄罗斯风格的导弹，还有俄罗斯风格的导航系统。
@ Kfint.
It's been gone over in great detail. And the conclusions for the USN are
they can't defend themselves vs either Chinese subamarines or Chinese ABSM
and they would have to be idiots to bring any surface vessels in range of
them.
反复研究后得出结论：美军抵挡不了中国潜艇，也抵挡不了中国的DF21.他们会傻得把所有的舰船都带到上面两种武器的射程范围内。
The naval balance of power in the Pacific has changed.
太平洋的军力平衡已经打破了。
The USN is indeed the largets Navy in the world, but it's not the most
powerful in the pacific at this time.
Or at least in in terms of navy vs navy.
美国海军的确是世界上最大的，但现在已经不是最强的了。至少在纯海军对海军上不是了。
It's the most powerful in terms of force it can deploy in a non naval
engagement still. Aircraft carriers, marine landings etc.
如果美军能展开多军种，比如航母，海军陆战队，那它才是称得上最强。
If we look at submarines on the other hand, their numbers and their
capabilities, we can see that China outguns the US in the pacific and has
the capability to deny them surface fleet operations completely.
我们看看中国的潜艇数量和水准，就能发现中国已经能完全压制美国的水面舰艇。
@ Thompson the Type 45 is an AA destroyer.
The Chinese don't use aircraft navally.
中国没有动用海军航空部队。
They use subs and ballistic missiles with thousands of miles range.
Al that is to them is target practise.
他们使用潜艇和拥有上千公里射程的弹道导弹。
Chinese subs are perfectly capable of surfacing in the middle of a naval
execise undetected. That means they are good enough to kill Us aircraft
cariers even when they are being hunted for. And even with low tech
weapons like torpedoes.
Good enough to do the job is good eneough to do the job.
中国潜艇在演习中能够很好地隐蔽。这意味着它们在反潜搜捕中也能击沉美军航母。哪怕是使用鱼雷这样的低技术武器。
Plus. They have some new ones. Ones which launch ABSM's. So these Chinese
subs, can attack surface vessels undetected from thousands of miles away
without fear of retalitation.
Now you may be saying British subs can do this too, and to some extent
they can, except that Tomohawk missiles can be shot down where as
ballistic missiles cannot, and critically, the Chinese have more subs in
the Pacific than anyone else.
Our one submarine we are sending looks abuit silly compared to their 50 or
60.
而且他们有了新的，能够发射反潜弹道导弹的型号。这说明那些中国潜艇能够从千里之外攻击水面敌舰而不用担心被报复打击。
你们现在可能要说英国也有这样的潜艇，某种程度上是可以，但不同的是，战斧导弹能够被击落而弹道导弹不能。更重要的是，中国在太平洋有着无可匹敌的潜艇数量。
我们派去的一艘潜艇在他们的5，60艘潜艇前就是个笑话。
Now obviously the strategic danger to he US is not a naval conflict with
the Chinese. That would just go nuclear.
The dangers here are that they arm their buddies North Korea with this
stuff.
现在对于美国的战略威胁明显不是跟中国的海军冲突，而是核威胁。
危险就在于他们把这种玩意用于武装他们的好伙伴朝鲜
The other danger here is the war of manouvre.
If the US fleet leaves Taiwan, and the Chinese fleet enters into Taiwan,
then Taiwan is lost.
另一威胁则是战略谋略。
如果美国舰队离开台湾，则中国军队就会进入台湾，导致我们失去台湾。
So if the US has to make a drawdown in Taiwan either for economic reasons
or tactical reasons, an escalation in NK for example, the Chinese can
simply sail in and take the place over without a shot being fired.
所以如果美国减弱在台湾的影响，无论是处于经济还是战略的缘由，情况都会像朝鲜那样，中国将不费一枪一弹进入并取而代之。
Thu 12 Apr 2012, 05:28
I'm talking about the bigger picture. Chinese military might wouldn't be
possible without an economy behind it, an economy built massively on top
of leeched American innovation.
Only Nixon could go to China.
我说的是一幅更大的图景。中国军事如果没有经济的支持就不能长久，美国革新受经济的影响巨大。只有尼克松能去中国。
Thu 12 Apr 2012, 05:34
The bigger picture is the USN is being paid for by the Chinese.
When they stop lending you the money, your fleet will go the same way the
Soviet fleet went.
更大的图景就是美国海军是中国人在买单。
当他们不在借给你钱的时候，你的舰队会像苏联人的一样崩坏。
A fleet does have to have an economy behind it, and the economy behind
your is, to no small extent, theirs.
一支舰队背后需要经济的支持，但，你的背后是什么？是他们的经济。
Thu 12 Apr 2012, 05:35
1. What is your point? I have said TWICE that I would not wish to sell
them Type 45's.
2. A type 45 shoots down missiles... it's an air defence system!
3. It also has ASW capabilities in the form of Lynx/Merlin helicopters and
a sophisticated sonar.
4. The Chinese submarines are of very poor quality and many don't even
have a missile launch capability.
5. Their nuclear attack submarines are so poor quality that the crews are
exposed to very high levels of radiation.
6. You be crazy bra'. Anyone who uses the return key this much clearly has
issues!
1，你的观点是什么？我已经重复了，我不是要卖给他们45型。
2， 45型能击落导弹。。。它有一个防空系统。
3， 它当然也有反潜能力，只要搭载山猫/隼式直升机以及精密声纳系统。
4， 中国的潜艇质量其实很低，而且很多没有导弹潜射能力。
5， 他们的核潜艇质量也十分低下，其中的人员都暴露在高剂量的辐射之下。
Thu 12 Apr 2012, 05:46
My point is that you have underestimated them massively and are
overestimating the Type 45 massively.
我的观点是你太低估了中国人，而高估了45型。
It doesn't shoot down ballistic missiles. Nothing can. It shoots down slow
missiles (or at least hopoefully it does). You know Exocets and Tomohawks
etc. Not something traveling at mach 4.
They fly too fast and the Chinese ones can dodge and are stealthed.
它不可能打下弹道导弹。没有任何武器能。它只能击落低速导弹，比如飞鱼或者战斧。而对速度达到4马赫的那些无能为力。
那些飞行速度太快，而中国的弹道导弹能避开拦截。
Chinese subs have already proven themselves quite able to defeats NATO ASW.
中国潜艇已经提升了性能，能够击败北约的反潜系统。
To be of more than adequate quality vs the USN.
A Lynx and a Merlin doesn't have the range to detect a chinese sub from
2-4,000 km away which is the engagement range of their ABSM's.
超出了对美国海军的作战要求。
山猫或者隼式直升机无法探测2000到4000公里外的中国潜艇，后者能在这个范围内发射反潜弹道导弹。
The chinese have 63 submarines in service, 5 of them capable of launching
ballistic missiles, others capable of launching cruise missiles to attack
shipping from beyond detection range.
中国现有63艘潜艇服役中，其中5艘能发射弹道导弹。其余的能在探测范围外发射巡航导弹攻击船只。
We will be sending a sub, not a type 45. Note that well.
我们要派潜艇过去，而不是45型。看清楚了。
Thu 12 Apr 2012, 05:48
The PLA navy lacks the support ships to project unified fleets way out
into the depths of the pacific, but it is indeed the dominant power (in
tandem with it's naval aviation arm, china's amphibious marine forces and
the pla airforce) in the south china sea. Any American fleet sailing into
that area in a hostile scenario or indeed anywhere near the mainland
wouldn't last very long.
Pla海军缺乏支援战舰来保护联合舰队进入深海。但它的确是南海的支配性力量。加上它的海军航空兵，两栖部队和空军。任何美军舰队进入此处战区或是任何靠近大陆架的水域都难以为继。
The prevailing plan in any serious engagement would be to send in
submarines carrying cruise missiles to strike at mainland assets, that
implies a total war scenario between the us and china, where china would
be blasting US bases and fleets with missiles of it's own e.g not likely.
普遍的战法应该是派遣携带巡航导弹的潜艇进入，袭击大陆目标。而这意味着美国与中国的全面战争。中国会用他的所有导弹轰击美军基地与舰队。
In THIS specific scenario (spratly's), the Us policy planners have
publicly stated that they don't support taking sides and that the region
should be open to all existing international shipping lanes, which they
would continue to be no matter who actually controlled the islands.
在这样的局势下，美国的决策者公开声明不站在任何一方，南海水域应向所有国家开放。不管谁实际控制那些岛屿。
It's very interesting, the media paints this as a china vs the rest
situation. It isn't. ALL parties have overlapping claims. Vietnam is just
as likely to go to war with the philippines, and ROC with vietnam, etc.
The Us is simply milking the situation, using it to sell some crappy
assets to weaker parties, and pester the stronger parties.
有趣的是，现在媒体渲染的是好像中国是在与其余所有国家为敌。其实不是。各方对主权的声明都有重叠，越南之前也几乎要于菲律宾开战。中华民国也跟越南有冲突。美国就在趁火打劫，趁机把垃圾卖给一些弱小势力，恶心强势势力。
Either way it's actions are not critical. It is the PRC itself that will
decide the fate of the south china sea, and any future economic
arrangements regarding resource extraction in the region.
但这些都不重要，只有中华人民共和国能决定南海的命运，这个地区的经济和资源。 |
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